The Homeschool Sisters Podcast with Guest Dennis DiNoia
===
[00:00:00] Dennis: Hi, Mr. D. Hello, Miss Kate. How are you? I am doing great.
[00:00:05] Cait: How about you? I'm well. I am so excited to have you on because you've been on our list of want to have guests forever. This is predating COVID, but then we went in a little bit of a lull.
[00:00:16] Cait: So I'm so excited to talk to you about COVID 19. a bunch of different things. But before we jump into that, could you, for anyone who doesn't know you, could you tell us a little bit about yourself?
[00:00:26] Dennis: Yeah, of course. Hello everyone. My name's Dennis DeNoia and people know me as Mr. D because when I first started in education, I know this is going to date myself, right?
[00:00:35] Dennis: 1988 is when this train started and students couldn't say my last name. So Mr. D it's stuck. And we just, it's followed me all the way through. And then in let's see, 2008, Mr. D math was born and started creating programs for for co ops. And I realized pretty Pretty in the beginning that, trying to get from city to city and do all the co ops, there was only so many days in the week and only so many miles that I could travel and get there and, set up and do everything.
[00:01:03] Dennis: And so we started looking at how do we get things online and how do we, create things that we could get to everywhere. And so that started 2010. We started developing the systems, 2012. We got everything into the, onto the internet. And I think 2013 was the first year that we started doing the live online classes.
[00:01:20] Dennis: It was interesting is when I first started creating the courses. I really just thought it would be like a self paced program and, kids are just going to, here's the course and here you go and, send us a question if you got a question kind of thing. But students really wanted that interaction and, they loved the way that we did the co ops and they thought, wouldn't it be great, if we could just meet you from wherever you are?
[00:01:39] Dennis: And so it was like, we found a way to start doing the online classes and do them the live online classes. And, you think back to 2012, 2013, and the systems back then were a little clunky. Yes, and it's funny because when you were mentioning the pandemic right in 2020, we had started using zoom.
[00:01:58] Dennis: I want to say back in like 2017, 2018, we switched over to zoom and it was like, oh, my gosh, this is so cool. The pandemic happens and then zoom became a household name. Yes, we just noticed immediately It's like when we would sign on we didn't have to tell the kids how to turn on their audio and how to do Their video how to use the chat.
[00:02:16] Dennis: They just knew right and so it was one of the things that was a You know of all the tragedy that came with the pandemic That was one of the benefits that came out of it was it just Made what we did even easier because people understood it more, how we got on there, but yeah, we've been going strong ever since and, keep doing the online classes and we, so we have it where kids do the self paced gosh, if they want to, and if they want to do that live component, then we have the live classes for them too.
[00:02:39] Dennis: Yeah, we've been rolling ever since.
[00:02:40] Cait: So I love it. So I probably discovered you. I'm trying to think of how when I first so I have a my oldest son is gifted twice exceptional kiddo, and it was probably around third or fourth grade that I he's very mathy and math. I always did well in it, but it just wasn't my jam, and I found it a very difficult subject to teach because I was taught, you just do it this way, and that's the way you do it, so I didn't have the language to explain, all his mathy questions, and I was like, this is the first, of the core academic subjects that I am going to try outsourcing, but he was very fidgety and could be very inattentive, like as much as He was young, and he was ready for pre algebra, but I was afraid to try an online class with pre algebra, number one, because I didn't know if anyone would take him where he was young, and I knew that he was capable of that part, and number two, I just didn't know if it would be engaging enough for him, and so I connected with you through iHomeschool network and I had the opportunity to take a pre algebra class and I figured if it doesn't work for him, I will take it and I will just, refresh my skills and whatnot because it's been a while.
[00:03:50] Cait: But I was just immediately struck by, first of all, that you will take these quirky kids that have skills that are all, strengths and weaknesses. And also, Just your enthusiasm for teaching because he was like I don't know if I want to take a class online Like why can't you teach me and as soon as you came on and I remember you were as the kids are entering you were Humming and like telling stories and stuff and he was immediately just in he was wholeheartedly all in you were just so enthusiastic and you did skateboard guy and all the stuff that he was just it was his favorite thing that year and It gave him the confidence to do to explore other online opportunities and he's excelling in math right now.
[00:04:34] Cait: So it's just
[00:04:34] Dennis: that's so great. It's funny about the humming is that my kids tell me, they're like, dad, we know that when you're humming, that the whole entire band is playing in your head, what's coming out of your mouth, so they make fun of me for the humming, but yeah,
[00:04:48] Cait: I love it.
[00:04:49] Cait: No, I just finished your book and I was. I'm a music lover, too. I never took an instrument or anything, but I constantly have music in my head. And I was just, it made so much sense to me, reading about your growing up and whatnot with trumpet. I think trumpet. Am I right? Just that you went from performing musically to being in a classroom where you're on display on Zoom or whatever platform and in a way you're performing there too.
[00:05:18] Cait: And that feeds the learning.
[00:05:20] Dennis: Absolutely. Yeah. It was, it's funny, I was growing up and I was actually, as a kid, I was pretty good trumpet player. And I got to, time to go to college and I was looking at college and it was like, and back then, when you look at going to school for music, basically what there was you're either going to end up in a band, right?
[00:05:38] Dennis: Which I didn't really like classical music. So I didn't want to be in an orchestra because it wasn't my thing. And I thought, I don't know, man. I don't know if they, the Rolling Stones are ready for me, right? So I thought is that or a band director? And I thought, yeah, that's just doesn't feel like my passion.
[00:05:53] Dennis: And so I still play and I still, keep the music alive. But but this was just the way to go. So it's been great. So no looking back there. Yeah. So
[00:06:02] Cait: how did you go from. How did you choose math? And then how did you go from the classroom to the homeschool setting? What was it that drove you there?
[00:06:11] Cait: I think I read your book, so I know, but Right, it's,
[00:06:14] Dennis: we, it's, there's a part of that story I don't think I put in the book, so I'll share that with you. Yeah. So when I decided to go into education, it started, and I, literally it started, and I was a youth group a youth group counselor, person for our youth group at our church. And I was young, 24, 25 years old. And one of the kids came in, he was a high school kid and he had his algebra book with him. And at the time I wasn't in education, didn't think that was going to be my pathway. And he came in and he said, Hey, do you think you could help me with this?
[00:06:46] Dennis: And I said yeah, sure. Anyway, so we go through it and I loved it. And he said to me, he goes, Wow. You just explained this better than my teacher did. And I thought, oh, there might be something here. And so I went to the, I went to the school district and I said, I'd like to go through the process of what do I need to do to become a classroom teacher?
[00:07:04] Dennis: And they, so they took my transcript. And they looked at my transcript, and I was a business major in college. And so I thought I'll, do business classes or something, right? And they looked at my transcript and they said, look, you've got more math credits than anything else. And this is back in the late eighties.
[00:07:19] Dennis: And so they said, look, we've got a critical shortage for math teachers. If you're willing to come on right now, we're going to put you to work. I was like, let's go, right? So that's how math, it chose me as opposed to me choosing that. And, and then I ended up in the. Classroom and it was just great.
[00:07:36] Dennis: But what happened as a classroom teacher was I had ideas and I had, and I'd see different things and I was watching kids and watching how they learn. And when I went to grad school, my, my graduate program was actually in counseling. And so I went through the counseling program and I was really learning about young people and learning styles and how they learned.
[00:07:54] Dennis: And I could, it was like, there was those times when you're in public schools and, you're doing it and here's your textbook and do it this way. And I could just see it was like, that's not the right fit for everyone. And so I started looking at what would it look like to start doing things that would, appeal to everybody and how you could reach all the students and all the learners.
[00:08:13] Dennis: And it, I knew that wasn't going to last in the public schools. And so as a public school teacher, this is the part of the story that is in the book, it's like I was, I go to, when I'm at conventions, I always ask and see, where's the other recovering teachers out there?
[00:08:26] Dennis: Because they're there, right? Yeah. And, but I was doing as a public school teacher, we didn't get paid a lot. And so I had a second business that was tutoring and I was one of those road warriors and I was driving all over the place and, going from house to house. And really found the passion for teaching through that and learn so much from young people because they were all ages.
[00:08:47] Dennis: And I would see kids that were, first graders up through 12th graders and just learned all these different methods and saw all the different textbooks. But this is really cool. And then it was in, in 2008. I was like, this is it. I'm done. It's time to, it's time to like branch out.
[00:09:02] Dennis: And I discovered the homeschool world and had met a homeschool co op in Sarasota, Florida, which is which is where I was from then. And we started working together and I was like, oh my gosh, this is like the perfect fit. And we just had this just, mutual synergy for each other. And I was like, this is where I want to be.
[00:09:20] Dennis: And literally started creating the curriculum and then it was like, wait a minute, why aren't my kids being homeschooled? So we brought our kids home and we started, so we've done the, been a homeschool family really ever since then. And it has just been magic, but it was really more just, it's one of those things.
[00:09:34] Dennis: It's like you seek the answer and it gets provided for you. It's you pray about it and there it is. And it just homeschoolers found me, we found each other and it was just like a. A perfect relationship to be able to work together. And that was it. So it was that transition out of the public schools, but then to start developing my own brand, so to speak.
[00:09:52] Dennis: And then homeschooling was like the place to go. And, we just opened it. It's big hugs to everybody. They welcome me. I welcome them. And it's just been a Just for me, it's been the best thing ever. And with my kids have flourished inside of homeschooling.
[00:10:06] Dennis: And, and so now it's great because today it's like I go out and travel and everybody wants to know how do you homeschool? Cause we want to do that too. And they want to know, cause travel internationally now and be able to do things where we can be online and do all these things we do.
[00:10:18] Dennis: And so people are like how do you do that? So it's a great story to share with people. But it was just, it was one of those, just the path kept opening up and opening up. And here we are.
[00:10:28] Cait: I really loved reading about how you started out teaching. I was a school psychologist before falling into homeschooling.
[00:10:34] Cait: We, we didn't expect to be here. And it's been the . Best curveball that life read us, but you seem to work in a district that's very familiar to me because I was always in the urban settings, and I did pre K through 12, but I was often housed in the high school. And when you were describing the students you had that were completely checked out because just life was hard and , they were hungry and, they hadn't done well to this point.
[00:10:58] Cait: And so what's the point in how . You use their strengths and got them interested in learning and becoming responsible for their own learning. But also, as you said, also tutoring, where you're seeing the entire spectrum of children from different districts and different textbooks and different ages.
[00:11:16] Cait: And so you're seeing, what the patterns are in the various public schools and where the holes are and also how to spark interest in the kids that maybe aren't, educated. Super interested in whatever subject you're teaching. So I just thought that was such a neat background before heading into work
[00:11:33] Dennis: schooling.
[00:11:33] Dennis: When you first, I think every person who's ever been a public school teacher or worked in the public schools, you go in young and you go in hungry and you're like, I'm going to change the world, we just all think that, right? And of course, and I go in and I'm a young guy and, they're like, Oh, we got the perfect place for you.
[00:11:48] Dennis: It's called dropout prevention. I was like, what? And so sure enough, but they, I went to, I was on a vocational campus that was an adult vocational campus when they put this high school program there, which. May not have been the best the best mix of where to put these kids because they were rough kids and they were struggling and they were trying to find their way.
[00:12:08] Dennis: So they gave them the opportunity to study the vocational programs, but they mixed them in with the adults. And it was sometimes that was a little tricky to manage all that. So we were managing a lot of that in the background on top of, having kids that didn't really want to learn. And it's funny because.
[00:12:24] Dennis: Those kids taught me something that has stayed with me for 35 years in education now, and that was because I used to grade all their papers, and and I would take, take so much time, grade everything, write all the notes, smiley faces, frowny face, whatever it was, and I'd come back each, each week after the kids give me all their work and bring it back into them, and these are the ones that just, you know.
[00:12:45] Dennis: This was their last stop. And if they didn't make it here, they were done with school. And at the time in this time in Florida, the dropout rate was already over 30%. And it was, they were trying to figure out a place to put these kids like a last resort, but they were also putting them somewhere to get them out of the regular classroom.
[00:13:03] Dennis: So these were those kinds of kids. Yes. So I'd hand the papers back. And the kids would do the same thing every time, I'd hand them the papers. They'd look down, they'd look at the grade, they'd look up at me, they'd look at the first page, they wouldn't look at any of my notes, and then they'd put it under their desk.
[00:13:18] Dennis: And that was the end of it. And I thought, this isn't going to make any difference. And so I did it for a semester. I thought I'm going to, I'm going to stick with this and be committed to this and it's going to make a difference. It made zero difference. So I, I came in second semester and I said, okay, we're going to change it up a little bit.
[00:13:34] Dennis: I want you to grade your own work and the kids were like, what do you mean greater on work? I said look, it's a math book. I'm going to assign you the odd problems. The answers are in the back. You check your work and then you tell me what grade you got. And they, that was like one of those first times when, they're looking at me and they're thinking, but we're going to tell you we made a hundred.
[00:13:51] Dennis: And I said, okay, that's fine. And then we're going to have another conversation when we take a look at your quiz or test at the end of the week. To see, is it a match for what this hundred work that you did? And so then they realized, okay maybe that's not going to go well. But what happened was they went from where I would give them the papers that look at the grade and put it under the desk, where they actually were looking it up and it was their work, their answers, and they were seeing something that was wrong.
[00:14:16] Dennis: And now they wanted to know why. And so all of a sudden it was like the questions why did I get this one wrong? I don't know. Let's look. And it became this dialogue that started to happen and, of course, you start showing attention to those students then the other students were like I want attention from the teacher, and so they were saying, hey, I got this one wrong, show me why, and it just started this whole thing about having them grade their own work, but in a math book, if you think about a traditional textbook, you just have the answers and it doesn't have anything to walk you through and detail it out and show you that, step by step how to do it.
[00:14:46] Dennis: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. But I knew I was on to something. And so we've done that ever since. And always had students, take the practice problems that you're doing and you check it yourself because it's in, and then we detailed all the solutions out so they can follow it step by step. But we saw so many things that happened with that.
[00:15:01] Dennis: And one of those was just the kids started to take ownership for their work. But the second thing was in my son was a great example of this. So he was, he was one of the ones that he said, I can just do this in my head. Dad. I was like, okay do it in your head until you can't. And then let's see if show your work.
[00:15:16] Dennis: But we noticed that, when you think about young people that for them, it's we always want them. We'll show you work, show your work, but we never show them how. We just tell them to show their work and oftentimes you, they hand you something and you can't follow it. You don't know where you got things on three different pieces of paper.
[00:15:31] Dennis: And they get there, but we thought, I thought what if we actually took them step by step and every step along the way, follow the steps and see what it is. And even for kids, it's if you don't understand something, go look at how it's worked out and see if you can figure it out for yourselves.
[00:15:46] Dennis: And our students love that because it is giving them that self reliance where they can really start to become self directed in their learning, but we're also showing them how to show their work. And for, and they don't know that in the background, but it's amazing because now it's like, Oh here's the steps.
[00:16:02] Dennis: And they start showing their work, which is amazing. I had to go through that with my own son. So I was like, okay, this works. So it was
[00:16:08] Cait: good. Both my mathy kids hate to show work, right? Yeah. When my oldest was enrolled in he was in the live pre algebra classes with you, I was struck by how you do that.
[00:16:18] Cait: And I was thinking to myself, number one, is he going to, is he going to fib to you and be like, Oh, I got a hundred on everything. And also I was really struck by how for a kid like him who attention and Impulsivity and executive functioning. Those are struggles for him and they're never going to be like his thing that he's best at.
[00:16:40] Cait: But it was so good for him to slow down and to go through and look at the various problems, the steps and see where he made the mistakes. And then it got into his head. The little achiever that he didn't want to get them wrong. So like, where did I get this wrong?
[00:16:54] Cait: And he would do that all himself. And he was really young at the time. So I was just really impressed by how you putting that ownership on them is especially good for the kids who maybe are very impulsive and are just like, I got this. I don't struggle with math. Math's easy. I did this all in
[00:17:09] Dennis: my head.
[00:17:10] Dennis: Oh, that's great. And it's one of those things that, the student, when you first tell students, okay, you're going to grade your own work. And we tell them, we meet them and we'll show kids at a convention. And we're like, okay here's how the program works. And I always say to them, I say, okay, so let's say you got this problem wrong.
[00:17:25] Dennis: And then you went in and you figured out what you did wrong and you corrected it. And now it's right. What's your grade going to be? And they look at me with the funniest face on there and they say I don't know. I got it wrong. I said, but now it's right. And so they finally look at, they think does that mean I get a hundred?
[00:17:40] Dennis: I said, absolutely. It means you get a hundred and they're like, oh, that's so great. And I said, yeah, I said, okay, now who does grade your work? Is it me? Is it mom? And and they, it takes them a while. And then they finally pointed themselves and yeah, it's you. And here's what happens. If you don't make 100 percent if you're not getting everything there is to get, whose fault is that?
[00:18:00] Dennis: And then they sit there, they go mine. Yep, you got it. So it's always giving them the ownership of their work. And the thing that I've always noticed, too, is that I think in anything, when we discover something. And we see it for ourselves. That moment, it's when someone says, here's what you did wrong, it's really different than when they see it for themselves.
[00:18:20] Dennis: And there's something that happens that kind of jogs that long term memory because it's that aha moment. They're like, oh. Here's what I did. And then it just starts to have other things connect and for them, for they think, oh, I'm just going to check my own work and do great. It's yeah, but we know all these other things are happening in the background that goes to long term memory.
[00:18:38] Dennis: It goes to them taking ownership and it has them becoming somebody that knows how to research, because we tell students the same thing. It's look, you quadratic formula 10 years from now. But what you will know how to do is how to look it up if you need to. And for me, that's a life skill.
[00:18:55] Dennis: And it's that's, I'm always looking for can kids, can they go in adults as well? Can you go in and can you figure out? What's happening? Can you go in and do the research and find what you need to find? And for that, for me, it's if they're going to work in a field where they've got to use the quadratic formula all the time, they're going to remember it.
[00:19:12] Dennis: If they don't, that's okay because they're going to what they're going to know how to look it up and they can go back. And it's we tell kids too. It's if you think about a song where you can't remember the lyrics and like the first couple of lines and the whole song comes back to you, we tell them this kind of how math is.
[00:19:26] Dennis: It's You may not remember this, but if you go and you look it up and you see how something starts and they're like, that is funny. The students tell us, they go, that happens all the time. It's then I remember the whole thing. It's great. That's what we want.
[00:19:36] Cait: So you've taken an assignment.
[00:19:38] Cait: That's usually the grading process is usually very passive. And I was thinking, as I was reading your book and you're talking about the kids that look at the test or the quiz handed back and the points and just shove it in their backpack, I was thinking. of my own experience in public school and I was a good student and I think I still did the same thing.
[00:19:54] Cait: Like I don't think, unless there was something that I really was like, huh, how did I get that score? I was just like, okay, like I got some points off and never really went back to look at it. But you're teaching them to do that. So it's not, it doesn't stop at the test. And I think when we think about.
[00:20:11] Cait: traditional school, and the system that it is, and just inherent in a system, there are flaws, , but that's one of them, is that you just, you're keeping the learning going, versus I studied for this test, okay, I did okay, on to the next thing, you're you're keeping
[00:20:25] Dennis: it going. Yeah, because you think about the idea, like people talk about mastery, like a mastery approach to something.
[00:20:30] Dennis: And it's does mastery mean 75 percent or does it mean 80%? I'm like, no, it means a hundred percent. Like we want you to master it. Like we want you to get everything there is to get. And so yeah, go back and do it again and let us know if you've got a question and we want to guide you through and yes, do it again.
[00:20:45] Dennis: And. I think the more that young people know, it's okay that they should be. The other thing too is I think if they're gonna go back and do the work it takes to find out what they did wrong and then want to do it again, they should get something for that. So we give them credit for that, and it's we want that.
[00:21:01] Dennis: And I think it makes a huge difference for them. And again, it just, it. It brings, their confidence goes up. You can just go down the list of all the things that happen for them. But the biggest thing is they start to be able to take ownership of it and do it on their own. And that for me is that's what we want.
[00:21:15] Dennis: We want kids that can come out and be completely self reliant, self directed, and for them, it's independent, but, and at the same time, it's ownership. And if they need help, Then they know they can ask for help and that's a, and that's one of the other things too is you look at how many times people they get stuck and they think, Oh I don't know what to do here and I can't ask anybody for help is no, we want you to do that.
[00:21:36] Dennis: And we want you to and learning how to ask a question that's huge all in itself as
[00:21:40] Cait: well. Yes, and just advocating for yourself. I was thinking of all the kids who, you know, maybe after, you're going through a math class and it's hard for them, and maybe they get a C on a test, and then the next time, they get the C minus, and it just feels like It puts them into this box where they feel like they aren't good at something that you attach to the grade where everyone can, if you pass, everyone can learn.
[00:22:04] Cait: It's just, our unique differences. So it's giving them that confidence to not be the kid who says I'm not good at math just because you got tripped up. The first couple of months of the
[00:22:13] Dennis: school year, right? Yeah. And oftentimes when they're stuck in math, it's usually not what they're stuck on.
[00:22:20] Dennis: It's usually something that they didn't get from before that. So there's some concept missing. And until they get that figured out, then once they get that figured out, they're like, Oh, it all makes sense now. And that, that, again, it just comes, it gives them that opportunity to keep pushing forward, knowing that they know that they're going to what they're going to complete it and they can ask for help when they need it.
[00:22:38] Dennis: And at the same time, they're learning and they're doing it on their own. And that is that's just gold.
[00:22:44] Cait: I love it. So we've talked a lot about math, but Mr. Demath is so much more than math. I know my kids have taken ASL. My oldest took college and career readiness and absolutely loved it. The stock market was, Like that's all he did that whole year was so into the stock market and has such an understanding of it now that I think many adults don't have.
[00:23:04] Cait: Could you talk about how you made that shift from starting with Mr. DeMath and then expanding to these various areas?
[00:23:11] Dennis: Absolutely. So the college and career readiness. It's funny. I tell people, it's probably our best class we have, because we do everything from, how to write a resume to how does the stock market work.
[00:23:22] Dennis: And, so we're not getting into like super advanced trading strategies, like options and things like that. It's just, here's how you research a stock. Here's what you look for, looking at the highs and lows and, looking at the analysis of it to see what's going to happen. We put them in a contest.
[00:23:36] Dennis: We let them it's a virtual market. Yeah. Kids, they, they really enjoy that. We look at them on how to research colleges. And if you're not going to go to college, how do you research a business and interview skills? So we take them through so many different aspects of that class.
[00:23:50] Dennis: And that was something that I just, I always felt like that is Those are the skills we want kids to have. Those life skills that they can take with them. And then our ASL class, and we've had a lot of other classes come along like ASL, and ASL, the the teacher that created the ASL program was one of my math students in a co op, 15 years ago.
[00:24:11] Dennis: Oh, that's great. We first met her and So she came to me and she said, she goes, I'm making these ASL classes. And she said, I really, I've got these, I've got these YouTube videos and I've got all this stuff. And she said, would I be able to use your platform to put the content on there?
[00:24:26] Dennis: And I was like, of course, and it was great because she knew our math program. So she understood the structure of the math program. So she could model the ASL program, similar to the way that we do things in math. And it just, it was like, the kids loved it. And I was like, Look let's get this out and let's share this with more people.
[00:24:44] Dennis: And so that's really how it was born like the ASL class. And then we've had other people come to us and we have a grammar class. And we launched a class last year that is this super cool class on digital music production. Oh, fun. It's really cool. And I met a guy and he was we were at a, we were at an event together and he was doing assemblies for schools.
[00:25:04] Dennis: And he said, he says, yeah, I do these assemblies for schools with kids and we teach them about music production and the digital side of that. And I said, man, you gotta make a class of this. And so same thing. We worked together and built the class up. And he actually does he does movie trailers for movies for some of the Marvel movies.
[00:25:20] Dennis: And he's super high end and he's got this amazing recording studio. And so we have him come in and do assemblies for us now, but we also have a class to follow up with them on if the kids want to do that. So it's been more of, we have a really great learning management system that is, yeah.
[00:25:36] Dennis: It's big enough that we can expand and we can have more programs come in and we're actually, we actually just brought in a science teacher. So we're working on science classes now. So yeah, we're pretty excited about that. So she's starting with biology. So for people, cause people have asked us, when are you going to get science?
[00:25:51] Dennis: And so we've been, Looking for the right person and we found somebody and she works in the homeschool market and she's look, she goes, is there any way we can work together? I said, absolutely. So she's working on courses, but our grammar classes came about like that. And just, every, people come along and they're like, Hey, can we, can we look and see how we can do this?
[00:26:06] Dennis: We're like, yeah, absolutely. It's been really great. So the, we've just been, people are like all the time. I think you're gonna have to change your name from Mr. D math to Mr. D math and more or something. So that we have, have something else out there for people. But people have come to know that that we have more classes than just math, but the college and career readiness was just was one of those classes for me that was like, That's a class that, and I was a business major in college.
[00:26:27] Dennis: So I was always like, there's so many things that we don't get done in math that go beyond the math class. And, how can we put that together? So that's how that class got started. And then things just kept continuing to grow from there and more people coming on and looking to see how we could work together.
[00:26:41] Dennis: And it's been
[00:26:42] Cait: great. And you have even athletics, I think. Is that right? And college test prep, which everyone's always looking
[00:26:49] Dennis: for. Yeah. And the test prep is funny. You look at test prep and during the pandemic, a lot of the colleges started to move away from standardized test scores.
[00:26:58] Dennis: They started, they just called it test optional. And now we're seeing some of the colleges saying, we're not going to do that anymore. And they're bringing the tests back. And so we've done SAT prep and ACT prep. The. We do some things that kids that do the Accuplacer in Florida, they call it the PERT test, which is if they want to dual enroll, and most of the time where they get stuck is on the math, and so we put together a math program for that, but, and same with the SAT and ACT, and we're starting to work with some schools out in California where we're doing.
[00:27:27] Dennis: Standardized test prep for their state end of the year test because we work with some public charter schools out there that those students while they use our homeschool programs, and it's funny, you go through and you look at the list of homeschool or you look at their providers of the people that come in as vendors.
[00:27:43] Dennis: It's all of our homeschool companies that are out there, but the kids are still stuck inside of the public school because it's a public charter school. And so they still have to take the end of the year state test. And so we developed a test prep program for them as well. And the kids are loving it. And again, we go right back to the same thing about, here's an example.
[00:28:01] Dennis: Here's what it looks like. Check your work. And then in those classes, we actually have the kids, we give them an assignment. Now go teach someone else what you just learned, because we want them to reteach what they're learning. Same thing. It's like when they're teaching someone else, we also know what's happening is that if they can communicate what they learn, we're We know there's so many different things that are happening for them that goes much deeper and they start to take it to another level in their understanding.
[00:28:23] Dennis: So yeah, it's been fun. It's just, we just keep looking for what else can we do? How else can we support young people?
[00:28:29] Cait: I love that. And if you're teaching someone else, talk about mastery there, if you're able to do that. So getting back to the college and career readiness, I was struck by, I always think of as my son is getting closer to the 18 number, it's such, like We, we expect our kids to all of a sudden know what they wanna do for the rest of their life and make this decision if they're college bound, that they're like locked into this major or whatever, and their brains aren't even fully developed yet.
[00:28:59] Cait: And I was just struck by that course and how there were so many things included that would've been helpful to know before going off to college, even as someone who was like. Really academic at the time, and I had my stuff together and I figured it out, but it would have been nice to know, I think you did, even did checkbooks, right?
[00:29:17] Cait: Which I don't, people don't even really use that much right now anymore, but I'm dating myself here, but it was just so nice to see him exposed to all of these things that you're not going to learn in a traditional setting.
[00:29:30] Dennis: Yeah, for sure. And we had a, the very first thing we do in that course is a section on goal setting.
[00:29:35] Dennis: And it's one of those things that we all talk about goal setting, but can you get it down to the level where somebody can go through, they can create a goal and they can duplicate this over and over again. And we always tell them, we show them the SMART acronym, the specific measurable, the how it all.
[00:29:49] Dennis: And so then we just put a big circle through it and draw a line and go, okay we're not doing that. Here's what we are going to do instead. And we take them through this process where they literally. Look out into the future and create what they're up to. And then they work backwards to see, how do you get there and lay out the steps.
[00:30:05] Dennis: And I actually do that workshop at conventions. And it's funny how many times I come back to the convention the next year and a mom will come up to me. She goes, I sat in on that goal setting workshop last year. And she goes, I just want to tell you what happened. It happened. I did it. I got my goal, so it's great.
[00:30:20] Dennis: And so we know that it works not only for young people, but for adults as well. But starting them there and having them look and we talk about we talk about some principles from a book called Think and Grow Rich, which is written by Napoleon Hill. And we talk about the, there's a section in there called three feet from gold.
[00:30:37] Dennis: And when you look at what happened, and this was a true story a guy named Charles Darby, and he went in, and he was trying to he was trying to mine for gold and he literally was three feet away from the biggest gold vein that had ever been found in California. And he sold all of his equipment to a guy that was like a, he was like a, basically like a junk dealer.
[00:30:58] Dennis: But the guy had enough sense to look and see what he had. And he went and he found somebody that understood how to use the equipment, took him out. And he said, where should we be digging for this gold? And when he told them it was three feet away from where he had quit.
[00:31:11] Dennis: And that's, so he got this, the phrase three feet from gold is my goodness, it's wow, oftentimes we get somewhere and it's not going well, it's not going well. And it's but what if you just. That one next step and that, just staying with it and really, if that's your passion and you have that burning desire, don't give up on it because you may just be that three feet from gold and whatever it is and and the kids they, they hear that and when they hear something like that, it's this is real, and it's not like just a telling them, Oh, don't quit.
[00:31:39] Dennis: Don't give up. It's no, here's what happens when you actually take it and you keep going and you stay with it and you persevere and you don't give up on what your dreams are. And, it's just, it works. And we weave that in throughout the course for kids so that. They see and of course, then we're going to show and open up everything else in there.
[00:31:56] Dennis: The check writing thing is really funny because, when you show a young person a check and you say, okay here's the routing number of the bank and here's the account number of the bank. And they don't realize that those things are, they're printed right on the check and what they mean and what the difference is and what to look for.
[00:32:11] Dennis: And so it's been great, even, as kids get older and they maybe aren't writing checks anymore, but maybe they're using an ACH feature. On a digital online banking account, and they still have to know what the routing number is. They still have to understand how the account number is if they want to make online payments.
[00:32:26] Dennis: So it's been, it's something that where the check itself is something that's outdated, but some of the information from the check is still things that they're going to take with them in today's technology.
[00:32:37] Cait: Definitely if you want to at your job, get your automatic deposit so you don't have to worry about taking that check to the bank.
[00:32:44] Cait: Absolutely. So as you're talking about goal setting, it reminded me of the last chapter in your book, which is a bonus on goal setting and you made it so visual that I think it just It helps every type of learner, but could you talk a little bit? I'm like talking your ear off and I'm not going to keep you forever, but before we wrap up, could you tell us a little bit about your book teach and about the concept of independently responsible learners?
[00:33:13] Dennis: Absolutely. So the book the book, 35 years of being in the industry. And so just taking, my own experiences, my kids experiences with students and wrapped it up into, if you want to call it best practices. And again, best practices are. You know in my opinion, right?
[00:33:30] Dennis: You know that's where they come from But the book is going to walk through everything about when we talked about, you know The kids presenting their own work and why they should do that and why they take ownership of it and different ways to do that and just walking through all the different steps and even for a parent of sometimes a parent it's hard for a parent sometimes because we can sit down with somebody that's not our child And we can be great with them.
[00:33:53] Dennis: We got all the patients in the world. We'll let them make mistakes. It's but our own kids, it's no, you got to get this. You got to get this. And so it's like stepping back from what's it like to be more like a coach and how do support young person. And then and just all throughout there.
[00:34:07] Dennis: I think my favorite chapter in there is, just a chapter on, are you doing what you love to do? And when I grew up. That was not the message that I was given as a young person. It was never about, are you doing what you love to do? It was more about, no, you're going to college and you're going to get this degree and you're going to do this and you're going to get a job.
[00:34:23] Dennis: And I was like, but we're discovering now. And it's much more a conversation we have with young people today to see what are you really interested in? Are you doing what you love to do? And from doing what you love to do, they find that passion. And, you can, like me, it's I created a whole entire program.
[00:34:40] Dennis: We made it up, right? And here we are today, but I love doing it. And it just, it keeps going. The very last chapter though, is we call it a bonus chapter on goal setting. And we take them through that process. And so we have this thing. It's a. It's a visual display. I call it a cluster diagram where you're literally just you're taking the goal.
[00:35:00] Dennis: What is it that you want to achieve? And then you're coming up with the things that would have to happen so you can achieve that goal. And then for each thing that has to happen, you have to come up with some supporting details. What has to happen to make that happen? And, you could put it all on one piece of paper.
[00:35:14] Dennis: You can see it, put it up in the bathroom, put it in, put it on your refrigerator, like wherever it is. And the kids can take it. It's nice. They can draw on it and make it look nice and neat. They can have, scratch it out, do their first rough draft of it, and then make it look great. But then we have them go back and write a story about it.
[00:35:29] Dennis: And then the story is that you're writing the story as a reflective story that you're writing about the goal. Here I am a year into the future, six months or however long that you made your goal, and you're saying, this is it. I achieved the goal and. How do you feel? Where are you? What was it like for you?
[00:35:45] Dennis: And then we have them go back and take the paper where they wrote out all of the different things that are going to have to happen. And you build that into the story and you say here's, I had to do this. And you can come up with a timeline of when you did that. And people that you met on along the way and people that supported you so that they're creating their story.
[00:36:02] Dennis: But when they create the story, what they're doing is they're creating that future for themselves, that they can live into that, and they can look forward to it. And it's amazing how often you think about something, you write it down, and then it happens just the way that you say. So a funny thing, we call it this like that self fulfilling prophecy.
[00:36:19] Dennis: It's like you really are creating, predicting what you think is going to, of what's coming, and how often that once we focus on something, this is the best example of that, If you've ever thought about when you decide you want to buy a new car and you come up with the car and you notice before you thought of that car, you drive down the road, you never see that car.
[00:36:38] Dennis: And now you drive down the road and all is that car, right? And it's Oh my gosh, all these people have that car. What was I thinking? But I think a lot of that has to do that. Once you say, this is what I'm up to. And this is what I'm committing to. And this is what I want. It's like those things start to become visible where you can see they've been there all the time.
[00:36:54] Dennis: You just couldn't see them But now you can because your intention is on that and you're actually directing your mind on what you're looking for And so we take the kids through and parents as well through that process of goal setting And to be honest, i've been using it myself for over 30 years. I First learned about in graduate school, and they took me through that process, and I got to choose going down the tutoring business, which led me to the Mr.
[00:37:16] Dennis: D math business, or get a PhD, and I don't have a PhD, so you know what route I went, but I actually was able to like, look at, write it out, and look and see what made the difference, and in seeing that the path was clear, and it was just so easy to follow then, because I made it up, and then I could follow it, and get guidance along the way as needed, which was perfect.
[00:37:36] Cait: It makes it so intentional and it's almost like you're starting those neural pathways for what you want. It reminds me of, I had an awesome coach as a swimmer and she used to make us go through our races. Before like mindfulness was a thing, we would have to lay down with our backs on the grass and think about every single step of the whole, this 30 second race.
[00:37:56] Cait: But it that's what it reminds me of, is just you're picturing yourself there, and I think, as kids especially, it can maybe be hard to think. They're so in the now, especially teens, that it can be hard to think a year from now. What do I want a year from now? So it's really good to be intentional about that and lay it out
[00:38:14] Dennis: there.
[00:38:15] Dennis: Oh, that's good. You guys must have had a really good swim team. Oh,
[00:38:18] Cait: she was awesome. She's still winning awards. Oh my gosh, that's awesome. Yeah. One of the things that I am struck by when you're talking about following what brings you joy and what do you want to do and then you yourself are living this with, you knew you wanted to teach but then the system wasn't really the best setting and the tutoring was great for a bit and then you ended up creating this entire learning platform and just talking to you, you can see your enthusiasm, you can tell that you love what you do and I think The really neat thing about being a homeschool parent and also having been in public schools for a while before, is you can see we're teaching our kids how to learn and how to love learning in a way that is very difficult to do in a classroom of 25.
[00:39:05] Cait: And I, and then you can go, once you do that, you can go off and do what you're doing and just create something based on and just keep growing it and following it like where, you started off with math and now you've got a bajillion other things that you're doing and you're so happy about it, you can
[00:39:21] Dennis: tell.
[00:39:22] Dennis: Yeah. And for me, it's an opportunity to contribute to other people. We, we've helped other people build careers out of doing this. And I, there's just nothing better at the end of the day to know that you're making a difference, so it's yeah, we make a difference in the lives of our homeschool families.
[00:39:37] Dennis: And at the same time, we're making a difference in the lives of our other course creators that come on and, and then what happens? It's a win because they're bringing great content back to our homeschool families again. Yeah, it's just at the end of the day, it's like you can sit down and go and, we have all the, there's all the work that comes with it and the circumstances that come up and the problems that come up and, but when you're inside of doing something where that you're really making that kind of difference, that's, it's lasting and it's going to stay with kids.
[00:40:04] Dennis: It doesn't matter what problems you have, you're going to work it out, and you just, you keep moving forward and, it just, it turns out, which is great.
[00:40:11] Cait: It does. Before we go, I always love to ask this question. What would you tell your younger homeschool self?
[00:40:16] Cait: If you had to give like a little gold nugget of especially for those who like you were teaching and then you were like, once you got into the homeschool market, you were like why are kids in school? And now you travel with your kids and they're still learning. What would you tell your younger homeschool
[00:40:32] Dennis: self about that?
[00:40:33] Dennis: Oh my goodness, don't not do this. Yeah It is yeah, it's one of those things it's like and you know When you first start homeschooling, you don't really you know, you it's funny Go to a convention and you can tell who's new because they got that kind of deer in the headlights Walking down the hallway, And I just, I look for them and I grab them and say, come on over here.
[00:40:53] Dennis: Let's this is what it looks like. And it's overwhelming, especially come to some of the bigger conventions. And there's so many different people out there and everybody's telling them everything amazing about what's possible in homeschooling. But I think when people really discover. What is possible and the difference that it makes for their children and not only for their children, but I, how many homeschool moms that I've met that they've started to discover something about themselves that they didn't know and that, it'll opens the door for them to be willing to go even further and, to take on new things for themselves because they took on something that they didn't know how to do.
[00:41:29] Dennis: Which is being a homeschool family and you learn that and you're like, wow. And then it opens up the next door and the next door and the next door. It's one of the, I think I go back to three feet from gold. It's like you are three feet from gold as you made the decision to homeschool.
[00:41:43] Dennis: And so now don't stop and keep going because it does turn out and we as an industry, we keep growing and we keep seeing how many different amazing programs are out there. And it's funny because, when I go to a convention and I see someone else who does a math program, we're instant buddies.
[00:42:01] Dennis: And, and it's that's not normal in the business world. You don't hang out with your competitors, right?
[00:42:05] Cait: That is so true about the homeschool world. It is. We're all working
[00:42:09] Dennis: together. Yeah. And, I know I'll go to one booth and, and I see what they're doing and we have a family come by and maybe our program's not the right fit for them.
[00:42:17] Dennis: So it was, come on, let me take you over to this other program. We'll walk them over. And we do that with each other, so we support each other because we're all in the same, we're all. It's the same goal, because we want to make a difference and we want to be homeschooling and we want everyone to find what works best for them.
[00:42:31] Dennis: It's it's a community. And I think that's one of the things that oftentimes now in today's world, it's missing, it's like there is that community where it's like minded and we're all working towards the same thing and we can support each other. And. Sometimes it doesn't go that way.
[00:42:44] Dennis: Sometimes it's a it's not we're trying not to support each other to get ahead of someone else. We're here. We're working together because we're all in it together, and we're all out to produce young people that make a difference in the world. And that's what we want. So yeah, three free from gold.
[00:42:58] Dennis: If you're making a decision to homeschool. Don't quit because it is amazing and beautiful and you'll love it.
[00:43:05] Cait: So true. Thank you so much for coming on. It's been an absolute pleasure to talk with you. I would like to say to anyone listening when you're talking about new homeschoolers, especially, you just don't have the hindsight.
[00:43:16] Cait: yet to know that it's working even though your gut is telling you to do it and along with that I would say that if you have a subject that's stressing you out really badly it's okay to outsource and that's exactly what we did when we took our first online math class with you and it freed up So much of my head space where I was like, this kid can just fly with you and do all the math things and I can focus on all the other things that I'm better at than trying to come up with the language to explain why you carry the one
[00:43:45] Dennis: things like right?
[00:43:46] Dennis: Exactly. Yeah, you don't have to remember the quadratic formula. We're going to do that for you. So don't worry. Yeah
[00:43:50] Cait: it has been so fun to talk with you before we go. Could you let everyone know? And I will also include in the show notes where they can
[00:43:57] Dennis: find you. Oh, yeah. Simple. It's mrdmath. com.
[00:44:00] Dennis: M R D M A T H dot com. And you'll see our site. You'll see all the different programs we have. And yeah, we look forward to having you check it out. Join us. We have a demo on there, so you can go in and demo some classes. Check them out and see if it's a good fit for you. And you can message us and let us know how it's going.
[00:44:16] Cait: so
[00:44:17] Dennis: much, Dennis. Absolutely. Kate. Thanks for having
[00:44:19] Cait: me anytime.
